Pierce backs Davis

[Piper]

Anybody else see PB on the news today backing Gray Davis? He's at some ralley with GD today in Santa Monica.

I know that I'm probably in the minority here ( on this board) but what's he (Pierce) thinking?

[Ace]

He's already stated in the press that Schwarzenegger running for Governor and the entire recall is an embarassment. He's hardly been alone in that sentiment, and I can't say I disagree with it at all, quite the contrary.

It's hardly surprising that as someone who's lived, worked and raised a family in California for over 20 years he's exercising his right to support who he thinks is the better candidate even if the choices all rather suck and it's picking the lesser of evils? Basically, he's doing what most of us do when we go to the voting booth, excercing his right to choose and making a choice. Now if he'd been supporting Arnold I'd have thought he'd lost his mind.

Ace

[sparklingblue]

Pierce is right. They shouldn't make Arnie governour.

Mr Davis is a Democrat, right? Just wanna know.

[Ace]

Yes, Davis is a Democrat and Arnold is running as Republican (a moderate one though from what I can get from his sparse snippets on issues). Of course there are currently about 100 other people on the ballot for the recall election including Gary "Whatcha talking about Wllis" Coleman. ;D

Ace

[sparklingblue]

Ah, I see. Thanks!

[Piper]

Um correct me if I'm wrong, but Pierce isn't a registor voter so he doesn't even vote. He never did become an American citizen....right? Which I don't understand at all. He's lived here over 20 years, is married to an American, all three of his kids were born here, yet he won't go take a test because he's "scared he'll fail it".

And just because you've peaked my curiosity....why is Pierce right Sparkingblue? And why would you think if he was supporting Arnold, Ace, that he would have lost his mind?

Also just wondering....is there anything PB could do that you would ever disagree with? Cause I have a feeling that he can do no wrong with most of you.

Not trying to start a war here or anything, just asking.

[Ace]

I happen to think Arnold is unqualified to be governor and that the entire recall is a joke and embarrasment. As for me joking that I'd think he'd lost his mind, not much different than you asking "what was he thinking" implying you didn't think much of his thought process.

He's stated he's just not ready to give up his Irish Citzenship. That's his choice. It's also his choice to want to participate in the political process to the extent he can in the place he resides, a place where he's very involved with the community, where as you say his children were also born and live, and a place I'm pretty darn sure he pays taxes. Those are his rights as a resident of the U.S. They'd be his rights even if he was supporting Arnold.

Ace

[curious george]

I didn't even think about him not being able to vote. In that respect, it does seem a little odd for him to be campaigning for anybody, no matter what their politics (or lack thereof). Does PB give a reason for not wanting to establish a dual citizenship? Just "curious."

cg

[Ace]

Who's elected still affects things that affect his life and things he cares about whether he can vote or not, like the environmental bill that Davis just signed which is why PB was at that ceremony today. He's spoken before Congress on numrous environmental and cancer issues and I'm sure he's interested and concerned about who's elected and who's creating or supporting what bills/laws etc just as any concerned citizen would be.

As for dual citizenship, it's complicated and I'm not sure about the current US Immigration Law. But some countries don't allow it, or demand renunciation of prior citizenship and the last I read that was US law. (though the renuunciation wasn't really enforced)

Ace

[migs]

I don't know the U.S. naturalization laws either, but it seems to me when he announced that he was going to become a U.S. citizen, he said he was planning on doing a dual citizenship.

I also remember he got a lot flack in the English and Irish press about wanting to become a U.S. citizen -- betraying his homeland and all that -- and this could be a contributing factor in his putting it off.

I also read somewhere just recently where he mentioned again in an interview that's he afraid to take the test and fail and that is one of the reasons why he hasn't taken it yet. He mentioned how he's never been good at taking tests and freezes up during them. It seems to have a lot to do with his early schooling in Ireland (and who can blame him).

migs

[curious george]

Hmmmm...I thought I just read or heard about someone who had dual citizenship, but I can't recall if it was someone well-known or someone in my circle of acquaintances. Got the impression it wasn't that big of a deal.

If the only reason he doesn't take it is because he's afraid of failing, surely he could hire a tutor.

cg

[Ace]

OK here you go:

Citizenship by naturalization (INA § 337, 8 USC § 1448)

A description of the US naturalization oath is given in Section 337(a) of the INA [8 USC § 1448(a)]. Of particular relevance to the dual citizenship issue is that, as part of the oath, a new citizen must pledge "to renounce and abjure absolutely and entirely all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which the applicant was before a subject or citizen."

The US naturalization oath contains a mandatory statement in which one must disavow prior allegiances. Now some countries don't consider this of any legal signifance, other's do, and the U.S. no longer attempts to enforce renunciatory statements. So I guess he could have dual citizenship if Ireland was amenable and didn't see the renunciation as legally valid [they have their own immigration and naturalization laws of course], but he'd still have to enter and exit the U.S. on his U.S. passport because it would be the only citizenship the U.S. would recognize. And maybe he doesn't want to give an oath of renunciation, even if it's not enforced, many don't.

Ace

[Yuliya]

It may not be as easy as that. Does US recognize dual citizenship for all Irish citizens or only for those who was born American citizen? (Which is what I heard although I couldn't find any confirmation.) If that's the case, PB isn't entitled to become American citizen until he renounces his Irish citizenship - and it doesn' t seem likely.

[curious george]

I can understand why he wouldn't want to renounce his Irish citizenship -- and yet I can see why the U.S. would want people to give up loyalty to another government, especially these days. Guess I can play devil's advocate and see both sides.

And yet I was under the distinct impression that dual citizenship was not a big deal. Perhaps it depends on how one feels about renouncing one's other ties, if that is indeed required in the official statement, whether or not it is enforced. Hmmmm... and yet that isn't what PB seems to be quoted as giving as a reason. ::shrugs::

cg

[Ace]

But the US allows US citizens to take other citizenships without renouncing their US one, they just don't recognize officially the other citizenship; they just don't do it the other way around. In either case I believe a U.S. passport is required for exit and entry into the country if you're a U.S. citizen. And yes there are different issues where born citizens are concerned, aka a child born in say Ireland of U.S. parents has dual citizenship that's recognized (or in the U.S. or Irish parents). I gather PB's children probably have automatic dual citizenship if Ireland has similar laws about offspring of irish citizens.

PB has stated recently he's thought about it alot but just can't give up his green Irish passport (though I've been told the color has been changed lately for new issues, a shame). For someone who was made as a child and later even to some extent as a man to deny his Irishness in England well it's understandable that he doesn't want to formally renounce his citizenship even if the U.S. doesn't "enforce" it later.

As for the bit about the test, well it seemed more like self depractaing joking about his test taking abilities than any real concern. The test isn't that hard and he's an intelligent man. And yes I'm sure he's has his share of tutor offers. ;D

Ace

[Yuliya]

I vaguely remember the article quoted above and I think he was joking about tests, although I'm not sure - these things don't always come across in print.

[curious george]

Surely I"m not the only one who pictures multiple passports with multiple names and an outraged Laura every time the word "passport" is mentioned in connection with PB.

cg

[Ace]

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I can see them now... Thomas Crown, Dr. Lawrence Angelo, Jean Charles Pommier, Valeri Petrofsky, James Bond

Ace

[sparklingblue]

First of all, some words from PB:

***

www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2003/10/03/DAVIS.TMP

When the questions were asked, neither the reporters nor Davis said anything salacious. In fact, Davis was determined to say as little as possible about the allegations after appearing with actor Pierce Brosnan and his wife, Keely, to sign four environmental bills.

(...)

Even Brosnan got peppered with questions about Schwarzenegger. He initially said he could not comment because there is a tight fraternity among actors. Keely Brosnan, his wife, said the allegations did not surprise her, and then the actor who played James Bond continued a moment later:

"It certainly doesn't happen on sets I've worked on, and it's not the way I conduct business in relation to women or any other human being," Brosnan said. "Arnold has obviously done something that has annoyed a lot of people, and now he has to face the consequences over this. It's his conscience that's at stake here and ultimately the state of the election."

***

As for his keeping his Irish citizenship, I can understand that. As I recall from the People SMA article, he said that he was "an Irishman first and foremost, but" he had "the deepest love for America". If I were in his shoes, I'd probably do the same thing. Why bother with double citizenships and all those formalities? Don't get me wrong, but the country you were born in is part of your identity imho. I wouldn't want to give this up or--even if only "half"--replace it by another one.

As for his supporting Davis, I completely agree with Ace on this. He has the right and he exercises it. I was concerned about political issues in Germany before I could vote here. Of course in my case it was age that prevented me from voting, but in either case it doesn't mean that you can't speak up for your opinion if you can't vote. What concerns me is when people don't care what happens in the political world.

As for your other question, Piper, there may well be things that PB could do that I'd disagree with, it's just that so far this hasn't happened.

[sparklingblue]

Posted on Fri, Oct. 03, 2003

Celebs and Hollywood heavyweights urge 'no' vote on recall

ANTHONY BREZNICAN
Associated Press

www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/6925118.htm

LOS ANGELES - Arnold Schwarzenegger can't count on the support of some Hollywood big-shots in the upcoming recall election.

Dozens of celebrities - including actors, producers, writers and studio chiefs - published a full-page ad in Friday's edition of the trade newspaper Variety urging others in the show-business community to vote "No" on the effort to oust California Gov. Gray Davis on Oct. 7.

"Join us," the ad reads in bold letters. "Vote no on the recall." A long list of names follows. Schwarzenegger, the apparent front-runner in the election, is never directly mentioned.

Some of those on the black-and-white ad were Amy Pascal, chairman of Sony's Columbia Pictures, which distributed the Schwarzenegger films "The 6th Day" and "Last Action Hero"; and Ron Meyer, president and chief operating officer of Vivendi Universal Entertainment, which distributed the Austrian tough-man's "End of Days" and "Junior."

Other show-business executives who sponsored the ad included Paramount Pictures president Sherry Lansing, DreamWorks co-founder David Geffen and billionaire producer Haim Saban.

Among the actors were Richard Dreyfuss, Danny Glover, Barbra Streisand, Larry David, Cybill Shepherd, James Cromwell, Stacy Keach, Rob Reiner and Pierce Brosnan, who appeared with Davis at a bill-signing ceremony on Thursday.

Another name on the list: Arianna Huffington, the TV commentator and columnist who recently abandoned her independent candidacy in the election.

***

More from the BBC:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3162746.stm