Commentary on the Commentaries

[Myrtle Groggins]

I thought this subject could use it's own thread for all the entire series on DVD.

I've watched two commentaries for Season 4, Bonds of Steele and Beg, Borrow and Steele.

Some thoughts:

WTH are they talking about? Rhoda's Wedding was the death of the series? Huh? They said the wedding was the highest rated episode of the series and it went down from there. Having been a Mary Tyler Moore show fan and a fan of the single Rhoda, I can say that what hurt Rhoda was marrying the character, true, but it 's not quite the way these commentors are making it seem.

These RS people made it sound like the Rhoda show had been on for a long time, then married Rhoda and Joe, then came the downfall of the show. Nothing could be further from the truth. Rhoda and Joe got married about two months into the series. During Rhoda's first two seasons, the ratings topped those of Mary's show several times and Rhoda even beat out Mary for the Best Actress in a Comedy Emmy.

Having been a single woman at the beginning of Rhoda's show, I was disappointed that she made her move to New York to get married, and not because she was trying something new in career terms - NYC was her hometown. I wanted them to study the single woman, without Mary, growing and becoming more confident on her own. Then I got married not long after Rhoda and was terribly disappointed when Rhoda and Joe got divorced, although some of her post-divorced episodes were great when she looked deeper into her insecurities.

My point being, it wasn't the wedding and marriage that killed Rhoda after time, it was that they goofed up in the beginning when they had Rhoda fall in love and change her entire life for the guy, instead of keeping her a single woman for a much longer period of time, like they did with Mary.

Another thing about these commentaries, the guys are soooooo irritating. Sometimes I wonder if they were even conscious when they were writing or filming the episodes. And the laughter! WTH are they laughing at most of the time? One word of caution: don't use more than two men in a commentary. They giggle and go off track more than young teenage girls. OMG!

Do they remember working on the series? Or do they remember watching or working on other series more? I know the show was 15-20 years ago, but come on! I find it so frustrating that I know their work better than they do! When they were discussing Beg, Borrow, they couldn't even remember which season the epsiode was in. Hello, people, you are working on the 4th and 5th Seasons DVDs. Then they were trying to say it was an episode early in the season. "The crooks were looking for the Royal Lavulites"........."No, they were looking for a ticket"........ I could go on and on.

I think watching the episode in its entirety before doing the commentary while watching it a second time should be the required schedule for doing dvd commentaries. At least they would know what they should be talking about.

Any thoughts?

[remingtonstelee]

I remember when DVD was in it's infancy I was intrigued by commentaries. However, most just aren't very good, especially the ones in which so much time has elapsed since the time of filming and the commentary. Most are just dull or you get a lot of rambling that has nothing to do with what is being shown, OR (my favorite) you get a lot of "I don't remember that". The worst comm. I've ever heard is the one for the Karate Kid; I think they are all drunk and oogle Eliz. Shoe in that one, and you learn NOTHING about the movie. I often just don't watch them anymore unless I am REALLY interested in something particular about the episode OR I'm really really bored.

[Ace]

I haven't listened to the Steele 4 commentaries yet (haven't watched the set yet at all) but I've enjoyed most of the commentaries so far. I've enjoyed the standalone ones and the group free for all stream of consciousness ones. All the commentaries gave some insight if not in to the particulars of each scene then into the work that went behind the show. how they all worked together and showed the appreciation and affection they had for each other, their work and the series. it's also understandable if they don't recall what season the episode is from since they're probably did different seasons all in the same day.

But on them sounding like teenage girls in a room together -- they do ! But I like that feel of old friends at a slumber party atmosphere.

Yes I'd like it if they reacquainted themselves with the episodes before hand, but considering that FOX didn't even deign to give them free copies of the DVDs even after their salary-less work on these commentaries it's obvious FOX couldn't be bothered to give them copies of the episodes before hand either. Can you say CHEAP and ungrateful? If you can't you can at least spell it F-O-X.

They all did these commentaries and interviews for the features for love of the series and Gleason, but they didn't get paid one dime for their time -- and FOX had to be harangued after by other parties for them to give free DVDs of the sets to the participants. Most of these people are also very busy so I'm grateful for their time even if I'd have liked more of it.


The Rhoda example is just as fallacious as the Moonlighting one that writers/producers invariably trot out to excuse whey their characters and their relationship remain so static. And yes it's exasperating.

Ace

[Lauryn]

I've only listened to the commentary on Beg, Borrow or Steele and would have liked more focus on the episode since it's one of my very favorites, but at least it was chosen, for which I'm grateful. The horseplay and antics from the guys in the room may be wearing thinner with some because by the fourth DVD set and commentaries we all have a good sense of the relationship between Gleason and his writers, and of the working atmosphere on the show. Some of the ground has been trod before, etc. That said, I do agree with Ace that the free-for-all style commentaries have their own appeal and spontaneity and there are always new things to be learned. Where they plead ignorance of what's happening on screen may be from actual memory lapse, but it's also part of the joshing and elbowing style of banter among old friends. Done with a wink, sometimes, I expect. I think it's evident that Brad Kern, as the credited writer, had more on his mind about the episode than he was allowed to get in edgewise. Also, Jeff Melvoin had some stylistic points worth pursuing.

I don't really mind when the discussion gets a little "inside baseball" with talk of other shows they are /were working on, etc. If you prick up your ears it can get interesting. For instance, it did strike me that the series "Charmed" has been mentioned in a rather scary fraught context on more than one RS season commentary. I've never watched it, but I knew that Brad Kern was the show runner / producer. In trying to refresh my memory I googled his name and a thread popped up at TVnow.com forums titled, "Has Brad Kern Ruined Charmed?" Ouch! I was afraid to look, LOL!

There were certain points where I wished the commentary had more breathing room, as when Brad Kern mentions that "Beg Borrow or Steele" was his favorite of all the RS ones he's written. I longed for an expansion on that, though he does say early at the start how the plot of the episode, with Laura and Steele rather enforceably thrown together to survive, had more space than the average mystery plot to explore their characters. I got the feeling he wanted to comment more on the scene with Steele and Laura in the foodline. Kern kept going, "hey, guys this is good stuff, here!" I think underneath all the banter, he really meant it, and was prodding for a reaction.

There must be no horseplayers in the group because they don't recall the race-track location where Beg Borrow was filmed. I cringed in horror when someone shouted out "Santa Anita?" because it's actually the far more declasse Hollywood Park (fitting, though, for the more dirt-under-the-nails style of this ep). And probably more of an economy-class location to use as per cost. (If I thought they knew better I'd say the choice was also down to a bit of horse racing history: Hollywood Park was the first track in history to ever have a "Pick Six.")

Speaking of the romance of the turf, the SMA recently took time out from eating his way through Vancouver to have a flutter on the gee-gees. (A snip from an article in the Vancouver Sun:)

...The former James Bond was also spotted at West Restaurant & Bar a few nights ago by iconic New York Magazine restaurant critic, Gael Greene, who's visiting Vancouver. Gorgeous Greene, who's been around the block a few times (at 21, she bedded Elvis in a Detroit hotel room and, at his request, ordered him a fried egg sandwich from room service before she departed!), tells me she was dining a few tables away from Brosnan and friends when he was approached by another diner who asked him to wish his daughter a happy 21st birthday. Brosnan happily agreed and gave the gal a big hug and kiss.

We also hear that Brosnan likes the nags -- he was spotted on Sunday at Hastings Racecourse overlooking the action, cheering them on from his table at Silks restaurant.

[sparklingblue]

Speaking of Pierce and racing: didn't they say in the Matador commentary that Pierce kept gambling (and winning ) when they were filming at the racetrack?

As to the RS commentaries, yes, there are bits you have already heard or aware of, but there are also some bits that are new or funny or interesting. I liked the commentaries I have seen so far (S1 and S2). What I would have loved though would be a commentary on any episode by Pierce. Maybe for an episode with a co-star he worked with again, so that we can see whether he remembers. It's always so funny when he says "I'd never worked with ... before". ;D

[Yuliya]

lauryn said:

...Gorgeous Greene, who's been around the block a few times (at 21, she bedded Elvis in a Detroit hotel room and, at his request, ordered him a fried egg sandwich from room service before she departed!)

I wonder... Am I the only one who thinks there might be something wrong with our world...?

[Ace]

yuliya said:

lauryn said:

...Gorgeous Greene, who's been around the block a few times (at 21, she bedded Elvis in a Detroit hotel room and, at his request, ordered him a fried egg sandwich from room service before she departed!)

I wonder... Am I the only one who thinks there might be something wrong with our world...?

Why, because something private that happened over 30 years ago with a dead icon is deemed fodder for a parenthetical in a gossip story that has nothing to do with said dead icon or fried egg sandwhiches? What could possibly be wrong with that?

Ace

[Yuliya]

That, and also because the details of the aforementioned private interlude were made so public to continue being a person's visiting card 30 years later.

Yeah, I know. It must be just me.