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Post by theresak on Apr 13, 2008 13:59:11 GMT -5
I have been watching season 4 episodes and I like them. I think they are pretty good and I really love Steele Searching 1 & 2. But what I don't understand is how this season ends up with a cancellation notice instead of praise from the network! I understand that most shows have at least one so-so season, and that season usually happens around 4 or 5. But those tv shows usually get it back together and the following season redeems itself. I just don't understand how this show got cancelled. Was it because of bad ratings? Did fans stop tuning in because they were tired of waiting for them to - ahem - "consumate" their relationship? Why tune in just to see them make out? That's not the point. What would we see, anyway? A steamy love scene that lasts 5 minutes? And then what? Ah, I'd rather just enjoy watching their loyal friendship. I'd get more joy just seeing their love expressed to each other in other ways. Don't get me wrong, I do like romance, and I do enjoy the cute, playful little love scences between Remi & Laura. Speaking of "Remi, " why is Laura still referring to him as "Mr Steele" 4 years into their relationship? Yesterday I was thinking of Daphne and Niles' first kiss out on that balcony in Frasier. She says something like, "Oh damn it, Dr Crane," in frustration and kisses him. Afterwards, Niles says, "You can call me Niles now." Shouldn't Laura be able to call RS something else than the formal "Mr Steele?" Anyway, I don't understand how they could cancel RS after that 4th season. Theresaps - just a note on Steele Searching - those episodes gave so many hints that Daniel Chalmers was Steele's biological father! I mean, for example, right before Steele goes in to see who he thinks might be his real father, DC calls Steele "my boy." Too obvious. But I'm not complaining
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Post by Ace on Apr 15, 2008 18:35:59 GMT -5
It was combination of lowering (though still respectable) ratings, cost to the show (it was rather expensive - more so than many other 1 hour shows) and scheduling (NBC had other commitments with producers and a rather filled schedule)
The official word is in this article:
Why 'Remington' didn't have a future By Sylvia Lawler, Television Editor July 13, 1986
Cancellations and retentions can be odd animals. A lot of jaws wagged when NBC axed "Remington Steele," despite its placement in the top 20, but kept Fred Dryer's "Hunter." It wasn't all James Bond's fault, says NBC, because Pierce Brosnan could have done both 007 and Remington.
Here is NBC Entertainment President Brandon Tartikoff's rationale for what was, ultimately, his move. Calling the cancellation of the Stephanie Zimbalist-Pierce Brosnan starrer "a tough decision," Tartikoff explained the factor that go into such a decision:
"We have to look at things in terms of where it's going to play on our schedule, and we thought the cushiest position that we could play 'Remington Steele' was time period where it was, Saturday nights at 10. We looked at the performance of 'Remington Steele,' which was in a state of decline on Tues. nights the year before, moved it to Saturday night (where "Hunter" had played the year prior.) With a higher lead-in (audience) than 'Hunter' had when it was in the same time slot, 'Remington' was doing slightly less than 'Hunter.' 'Hunter' next year win be a three-year-old show and 'Remington' was going to be going into its fifth season.
"In terms of interest in the show," Tartikoff's explanation continued, "we concluded the season with the so-called wedding of Remington and Laura which got a 29 share. Now, a 29 share, I guess in absolute terms, is a great rating. But if you look at the 29 and 'they got married', that's about as high as we'll see with this show. The competition that we saw facing us for next season ('Twilight Zone" and "Spenser: For Hire") we thought actually a little tougher than the competition we faced last season (the second hour of the CBS movie and "The Love Boat.")
"I think that creatively, it had peaked, It bad done 88 to 90 stories, and with shows like that you're looking at diminishing returns. How much can you regenerate a show?
"We didn't think there was much upside to the renewal of 'Remington' and conversely, we thought that 'Hunter,' being a younger show, could have more upside."
But Tartikoff said "Remington" retained its quality to the end, and that as a reward, its writer /producer Michael Gleason was now off somewhere [on vacaction?].
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As for lowered ratings, I do think it was the non evolvement of the romantic relationship. Not so much (probably) for the one time big love scene but knowing that the characters and their relationship was evolving in a contemporary adult manner as regards sex. Frankly to me it's pushing credulity that both these characters are celibate for this long - and within a long standing relationship. The will they/won't they just got hard to believe and a tad stagnant -- they should have done it and moved on to worrying and discussing other parts of their relationship - problems that came after they crossed the line to greater intimacy. Frustration with this I think was the main reason for audience erosion. Season 3 actually had the highest ratings and they seemed to be building to some kind of crossroads with the Cannes Agreement that built to practically the same place when it was all over. The move to Saturday night didn't help either.
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Post by theresak on Apr 15, 2008 20:34:55 GMT -5
Thank you for the article. It does help shed some light on why it got cancelled: television politics. I do totally agree with you when you say that RS and Holt pushed credibility in their abstinent relationship - I remember at the opener of season 3 thinking, "Who could believe that these two still haven't done it?" I would wince whenever they would talk about "consumating" their relationship. But for me that's not really what it was about anyway. I get off on their loyal friendship more than anything. Like I said before, I really, really do enjoy seeing them kiss or snuggle or whatever, but I don't have to know they went to bed. In the season opener of two - which was an excellent episode IMO - there is a great scene in a hotel room between RS and LH where she explains why she can't get serious about him (at that time.) To me that episode excellently explained why they hadn't gone all the way. Why should Laura trust RS in that way? She really knows hardly anything about him. The only thing she does know is that he has a secret past. So why should she let her heart get too involved by making love with him? Laura Holt is not a casual sex type of woman, IMO. At the end of "Steele Blushing," (S4) there's a great scene where Laura just jumps on top of Steele and starts kissing him. The episode ends with that visual - Laura on top on Steele. I saw that and thought, "Now, there's no way these two just made out for awhile and then in the middle of all that heat decided, "Oh, wait, lets not consumate this relationship yet!" ;D Theresa
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Post by Myrtle Groggins on May 2, 2008 23:07:35 GMT -5
Theresa, I'm with you. I didn't care if they were "consummating all over the place". In fact, I think it should have been written differently, leaving us to assume they were now "together" without actually blah, blah, blahing about it for five years. If they had gotten along, without all the fighting, with kissing or hugging at the end of most episodes, I think the fans would have enjoyed it more and been more satisfied. I know I would have been. They could have "consummated" offscreen, secretly, around the middle of Season Two and it would have added an air of maturity to their relationship, not to mention stability to the series. They could have kept the comedy and the romance! Another thing, it always bothered me that Laura wanted words from him to prove his love when we all knew he wanted her from the very beginning, and was truly in love with her. He changed his life for her! Okay, he did have his shady moments, but he did love her. Words are nice but Steele stuck with her for over four years, celibately! That should have counted for something. Yes, Laura was gun-shy because her dad and Wilson walked out on her, and Steele was highly secretive, but still, he was by her side for a long, long time, and he was earning his keep! I think the main reason the show was cancelled was money. It was very expensive to produce. And then, as today, the almighty dollar talks. Trashy sitcoms are cheaper to produce than RS, and rotten, tacky "reality" shows are cheapest of all. So here we are, 20+ years later, with lots of trash being broadcast over the airwaves while any quality programming is shunned. Doesn't say anything nice about the American viewing audience, does it? I don't even remember Hunter. I had to look it up. It ran for seven seasons and I don't recognize the names of its stars, although the man is vaguely familiar. I agree about that great scene where she got on top of him. If she had kissed him for awhile and then said, I'm leaving now, I'm sure he would have died right there on the spot. End of Steele. His heart would have stopped completely.
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Post by Mickey Boggs on May 6, 2008 15:27:30 GMT -5
LOTS of people agree they couldn't have just stopped after she launched herself at him. (Which was not in the script, BTW) So Xenos and Zinger wrote a great fanfic to tell us all about it. (Since it's from those two, you gotta know it's rated NC-17) krebsfiles.com/xenoszingblushing.html
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Post by Myrtle Groggins on May 8, 2008 18:53:03 GMT -5
Thanks so much for the link. I'll read it later. Hey, Mickey, I like your avatar. Like baseball, do you?
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Post by Mickey Boggs on May 8, 2008 21:03:20 GMT -5
I do! I played softball for over 25 years until the ol' shoulder gave out, so I figured "becoming Mickey" was appropriate. And imagine my surprise when I found out the star pitcher for our local minor league team is Mitchell Boggs. Must be a long-lost nephew. You can check him out the next time the Redbirds play the Zephyrs.
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Post by theresak on May 20, 2008 17:32:11 GMT -5
Theresa, I'm with you. I didn't care if they were "consummating all over the place". In fact, I think it should have been written differently, leaving us to assume they were now "together" without actually blah, blah, blahing about it for five years. If they had gotten along, without all the fighting, with kissing or hugging at the end of most episodes, I think the fans would have enjoyed it more and been more satisfied. I know I would have been. They could have "consummated" offscreen, secretly, around the middle of Season Two and it would have added an air of maturity to their relationship, not to mention stability to the series. They could have kept the comedy and the romance! Exactly. I think they allowed the characters get too close too quickly, and by that I mean - if they had never really intended for them to be a sexual couple, then they shouldn't have had them kissing in the first season. They should have stretched it out. Have them flirt and enjoy sexual tension for the first season, then have them kiss in the second season. And I agree with you, they could have had a sexual relationship behind the scenes, only alluding to it. What I think the audience wanted to see from Laura and Steele more than anything is for them to look into each other's eyes and say "I love you, I wanna be with you forever." I always wondered if Laura perhaps thought that Steele just saw her as another conquest, like she was some rare jewel that he just had to have, and once he did have her, take his passports and leave the country! But you're right, after being there for 3 years, you'd think she'd realize he really did love her. Alot of tv today sucks. I don't watch reality shows, so I'm basically just watching old tv on the DVD. LOL, Steele must have hormones of Steele! You have to deal with a person's sexuality in some way on a tv show, otherwise they're not human. I remember the clever way they dealt with Fox Mulder's male horniness: phone sex and porno tapes. But Scully, however, didn't seem to get anything.
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Post by theresak on May 20, 2008 17:34:25 GMT -5
LOTS of people agree they couldn't have just stopped after she launched herself at him. (Which was not in the script, BTW) So Xenos and Zinger wrote a great fanfic to tell us all about it. (Since it's from those two, you gotta know it's rated NC-17) krebsfiles.com/xenoszingblushing.htmlHey, cool! Gotta read that! Thanks for that link!
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Post by johnnytodd on May 22, 2008 19:13:43 GMT -5
So here we are, 20+ years later, with lots of trash being broadcast over the airwaves while any quality programming is shunned. Doesn't say anything nice about the American viewing audience, does it? Not different here across the ocean... And I completely agree with you about relationship and romance in the series
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Post by elizabethr on Feb 1, 2009 19:59:53 GMT -5
What I thought was interesting was how Zimbalist mentioned in the extras on the dvds that the writers originally had written them getting married. She axed that right away because she thought it would take away from the tension. I always thought that was a lousy move. It could have been REALLY interesting to have a couple that good looking playing all these different parts and meeting all these different people etc. I think the tension would have been heightened, not diminished because, as mentioned before, we never did see and would never see the consumation. Ps. When it ends with the consumation at the end of the series, does anyone else feel sort of... ugh! That was it??? I waited for that? If they would have been married there could have been a lot of heavy flirting and sexual tension/potential for jealousy and raised stakes. I think they really could have stood a chance at becoming a Tracy/Hepburn couple. I think it would have resurrected the show. ps. Stephanie jumped on him and it wasn't in the script....? Interesting.... INteresting... Love that idea.
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Post by Myrtle Groggins on Sept 17, 2009 10:25:19 GMT -5
Ps. When it ends with the consumation at the end of the series, does anyone else feel sort of... ugh! That was it??? I waited for that? ps. Stephanie jumped on him and it wasn't in the script....? Interesting.... INteresting... Love that idea. Well, the thing is, it never really ended with a true consummation, just a promise of one and a ringing telephone which drove many of the fans over the wall. You'd have thought they'd pulled the bed right out from under them with all the uproar. Actually, they end in the bedroom, leaning against the closed door, looking into each others' eyes, maybe with a hug and kiss. I don't know, I'll have to check my DVD. All I know is that ringing telephone sent the fans into a frenzy. Very few were happy with the ending we got. BTW, Tony was on the other end of that ringing phone. People were not happy. The married detective-type couple had been done before: Hart To Hart (5 seasons), Mr. and Mrs. North (2 seasons), although, officially, neither couple were detectives by profession, and they were married by the time the audiences met them. Oh, yeah, when Miss Holt jumped Mr. Steele's bones, I was sure that would be the start of a whole new dynamic, but alas, the next week, back to the old routine.
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