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Post by dr pepper on May 12, 2006 19:05:48 GMT -5
Hi Myrtle, that's from the "Breath of Steele" episode - it was the one with the two singing telegram girls and Steele's "birthday".
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Post by guest on May 12, 2006 19:27:23 GMT -5
The pie in the face was on Breath of Steele. The one with the singing telegram girls.
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Post by steeleinc on May 12, 2006 19:59:01 GMT -5
>In the featurette, Steele Trio, they show Laura with pie or cake on her face, and she is in a car (the limo?) with it still on her.
The scene is from "Breath of Steele". That scene always cracks me up!
>Does anyone know if Cassie was in Maltese Steele?
I haven't noticed her, but I'll check again. Anyone notice Charlotte is in "Maltese"? She's standing in the crowd while L and R are scurrying through the city while following the Maltese falcon. I think she's wearing shorts and a pony tail.
Cassie is in "St. At It", though - she's standing in the elevator that L & R enter during the argument they're having in the corridor when they meet up outside their rooms. ("If you're so bloody hostile, why don't you just let me fend for myself?!")
Debra
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Post by londonstreet on May 13, 2006 6:42:40 GMT -5
I've just done my homework....I found Cassie in St. At It and Charlotte in Maltese St. ....and yes, the woman behind mildred at the dinner really seems to be Cassie.
With Season 3 I discovered I've become addicted to Steele again.....I watch almost an episode everyday, now I'm looking forward to receiving season 4 and 5, even if after that I'll have nothingelse to wait so much for this year.....well I'm still hoping for The Manions dvd release.....
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Post by Lauryn on May 13, 2006 11:44:07 GMT -5
I finally got up the nerve to watch the official DVD version and sorry but, drug me or jail me, stamp me and mail me, I still can't think of what they did to "Steele Trying" as anything less than a lamp-post hanging offense. Gawd, not only is Tony B. missing, but they've replaced him with a sound-alike that doesn't really sound alike and plugged in tacky little mock-ups -- songs that aren't even real songs. Awful! I'm guessing these might be lifted from the PAX broadcast version because even A&E when they ran it on cable ponied up for the real thing. From what I'm hearing recently about other substitutions they've done something similar for the bits of "42nd St" in "Breath of Steele." Figures. But, honestly, if they couldn't even be bothered to find out that Steele's pocket watch tune "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling" is in the public domain, something you can find out from a quick google search, or for that matter, by shopping at any sheet music company, I don't think they lifted a finger, just did plug-n-play from bad cable broadcast versions. I just don't see any effort anywhere across the board, which makes me feel less forgiving.
I really wish someone on the creative side (paging Michael Gleason!) had put their foot down in this issue. It's been known to happen. Glenn Caron refused for years to let Moonlighting go forward on DVD without all the original music intact and they're up to Season Three, and no one from Lions Gate is having to wear a hair shirt or take a vow of poverty. You can, of course, make the argument that, contra RS, music (in every episode) esp. from the Motown, Stax, etc. back catalogue, was part of the essential fabric of Moonlighting and part of David Addison's persona, and that's perfectly true, but that just underscores the fact that someone went to the mat and did the considerable legwork and spent the considerable moolah for every jot of it, from Billy Joel's "Big Man on Mulberry Street" to David bopping into the office crooning The Swinging Medallions' "Double Shot of My Baby Love." Big music universe, and Moonlighting Season Three is selling for the same list price as RS Season 3, so someone somewhere made the calculation that they could still make good money off it. I'm sure they wanted to make even more money but also feared that fans wouldn't buy it without the original music, and they had their backs to the wall but still..
Maybe I'm just cranky because I watched most of Moonlighting Season Three last week, and the comparison to "Steele Trying" really bites. Perhaps the powers that be didn't think getting uncut original Tony Bennett (or the bits from 42nd Street for that matter) was that big of a deal to fans or weren't listening but it should have mattered for the integrity of the show. RS is selling well enough that it wouldn't have broken the bank, either, IMO. Now I find it annoying to hear Michael Gleason yammer on about what a thrill it was to collaborate with Henry Mancini. Wasn't getting Tony Bennett for "Steele Trying" a similar coup? They should at least scrub his name off the credits now.
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Post by steeleinc on May 13, 2006 12:49:11 GMT -5
Lauryn,
Well said. What they did to "St. Trying" is a travesty, no doubt about it. I steele weep when I think about it.
Debra
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Post by Lauryn on May 13, 2006 12:51:45 GMT -5
Now that I've got that off my chest, and feeling slightly less bloody-minded, here's the best article I've seen on the ins and outs of music clearances for broadcast television / DVD. From The Hollywood Reporter. Apologies if it's been posted before. THE SONG DOESN'T REMAIN THE SAME
Wonder why classic pop songs are missing from the DVD release of one's favorite TV show? The answer might be skyrocketing licensing fees.
By Bryan Reesman
Nostalgia sure isn't what it used to be. Imagine watching "Married ... With Children" without Frank Sinatra crooning the recognizable theme song. Ponder a pivotal moment in "Quantum Leap" forever altered because its requisite Ray Charles tune has been replaced. Consider revisiting an episode of "The Muppet Show," only to find that one's favorite musical number has been excised.
As far-fetched as these scenarios might sound, they are becoming a reality for vintage TV shows reissued on DVD. Licensing music for older programs is as pricey as obtaining tunes for new series, and the issue is forcing studios to make radical changes in order to feed the growing demand for TV product in the home-entertainment arena.
In the past year alone, the TV-on-DVD business has accounted for more than $2 billion in sales, and a report released by Merrill Lynch in 2004 suggested that that figure could reach $3.9 billion by 2008. With a number of recent releases flying off store shelves -- the first seasons of "Chappelle's Show," "Family Guy" and "The Simpsons" have sold more than 1 million units each -- studios have been reaching into their vaults to resurrect shows including "All in the Family," "The Golden Girls" and "Magnum, P.I." to feed that seemingly-insatiable consumer appetite.
More often, though, skyrocketing music-clearance fees are becoming major stumbling blocks for DVD reissues, often delaying or even completely derailing releases. Take "WKRP in Cincinnati," for example: The 1970s sitcom used so much classic rock that it would cost 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment a mint to clear the tracks. TCFHE has suggested that it still is considering releasing "WKRP," but others are not optimistic that the comedy and similar shows of its kind will ever make it into the market.
"There are certain television shows that studios can't release because of what's contained on them," says Paul Brownstein, an award-winning DVD producer of classic CBS shows such as the "The Dick Van Dyke Show," "Gunsmoke" and "The Twilight Zone." "'WKRP' will always be in limbo. It has the same problem as 'American Bandstand.' You (have to) pay a fee for the musical composition. For example, if Sonny and Cher sing 'I Got You Babe,' we have to license it from Warner Bros. or Warner Chappell, even though Sonny is the sole writer because there is a publishing company involved. If they're performing it on 'American Bandstand,' you'd have to license 'I Got You Babe' and then go to the record company and license the master recording, so there are double the music costs, which are high to begin with." Brownstein notes an important distinction between clearing music for film and for television: For film, music is licensed in perpetuity for all media, including future TV broadcast. TV music is licensed for the original telecast.
With audio recordings, the government regulates a standard mechanical copyright fee for music publishers. "But with video, it's whatever they want to charge," Brownstein says. "There's no statutory rate set by the government. That's one of the reasons why these things are so expensive. Ninety percent of the time, there is no negotiation."
Fees for song usage range from $1,500-$15,000, with superstar tracks reaching up to $20,000-$25,000. That amount usually includes master rights for broadcast and most other media rights, with a time frame ranging from three years to perpetuity. An additional home video fee is equal to or greater than those quoted. Synchronization rights are negotiated separately, with master and sync rights usually split 50/50, unless the song is a cover -- a situation that favors the publisher.
The price tag for iconic, well-known tunes can be staggering: Tracks by the Who and the O'Jays, used in the opening credits of CBS' "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" and NBC's "The Apprentice," respectively, generate six-figure deals annually.
Clearly, renegotiating licenses for classic songs on older shows can be daunting. "I'm working at licensing a product from one of the studios, and they have been able to give me artist clearance signoffs, but it's a variety program that contains 15 songs per show," says Jeff Hayne, director of acquisitions for BCI Eclipse. "I have not found any of the major publishing agencies willing to give any kind of deal to release the product, so I'm in the process of having my clearance house try to go out and find all of the different labels for all of these different artists to try to clear them individually."
The problem can be compounded by shows that have outdated publisher information or are missing clearance agreements or cue sheets identifying the songs used.
Trying to obtain music for certain shows can be so frustrating, says Hayne, that sometimes it is best to move on to the next project. He says that he passed on half a dozen titles this year, either at the outset or after doing some initial legwork. "It made it unrecoupable," Hayne recalls. "The cost of clearing the music often doubles the amount of units you've got to sell. Sometimes, it becomes impossible. The projections don't match what is currently happening on the charts."
Adds music supervisor Scott Edelman, whose credits include Fox's "Reunion" and NBC's "My Name Is Earl": "I've worked on quite a few shows that have been very music-intensive. It's always an issue when there is a lot of licensed music, and you get into executing video rights and video options. It can be very, very expensive. I know that some of the studios have chosen to do alternate DVD music and actually strip out some of the original music and replace it with less-expensive indie music."
For hard-core fans, the issue has become such a sticking point that many box sets now carry disclaimers on the packaging. "There was the big debacle with 'Quantum Leap: Season 2,'" recalls Gord Lacey, president and founder of the 4-year-old Web site TVShowsOnDVD.com. "In the season finale, Al (Dean Stockwell) is dancing with his wife, and their song is supposed to be playing in the background, and it's changed. That was a very emotional scene for the series and one that a lot fans hold dear to their hearts. To change that song really upset people."
Since then, Lacey says, Universal Studios Home Entertainment DVDs include a disclaimer on the packaging; USHE's DVD of NBC's "Las Vegas" carries a message reading, "Music may differ from televised version." A similar disclaimer can be found on Sony Pictures Home Entertainment's DVD release of Season 3 of "Married."
"It actually says, 'Includes new opening theme song' right on the back of the package, and it's not in microscopic letters," Lacey says. "It's bigger than the text description of the season. Sony did it right. It's very clear that there's new music. Another Sony title, 'Dawson's Creek,' started using the international version of the theme song (with Season 3). It's a Jann Arden piece that was created specifically for the overseas airings of the show."
Adds Home Theater magazine convergence editor Chris Chiarella: "Anything with a famous theme song or a notable song score will lose a lot if not handled properly. I think that Universal did fans a great service in assuring that all of the original music in 'Miami Vice: Season 1' was preserved. A very different '80s show, 'Square Pegs,' also drew much of its charm from the music, and so I hope that this show will appear, but only if all of the original songs are intact."
While Chiarella feels that a change like the "Married" theme might be glaring to consumer viewers, he thinks the overall impact is small. "That segment of the market that knows the original product well enough to detect the difference is likely a small percentage, and I've never heard of anyone returning a DVD to the store because the music had been rescored," he says. Chiarella adds that fans now have more access to prerelease information via the Internet and can make informed choices about the TV series they will purchase.
And according to Lacey, some studios are adding their own spin to the music-substitution situation -- turning the new songs into a kind of bonus for consumers. "When you look at 'Dawson's Creek,' he says, "under Special Features, it says, 'Features brand-new music selected by the executive producer.' Now you're making changes to the original thing, but you're doing it with people behind the show (rather than) some studio person."
When studios opt to retain original music and pay the appropriate license fees, those costs often are passed along to the consumer. The star-studded Season 1 edition of the NBC series "American Dreams," billed as an "Extended Music Edition" (it contained some music substitutions), retails for $89.98. "Freaks and Geeks: The Complete Series" and "Moonlighting: Seasons 1 and 2" both kept their original music at a final retail cost of $69.98 and $49.98, respectively.
"I'm sure that for the real hard-core fan, it's not easy to swallow, hearing a different song," Edelman says. "But I think it's weighing the difference between actually getting to own it on DVD or not."
Published Nov. 15, 2005
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Post by Myrtle Groggins on May 16, 2006 0:50:40 GMT -5
Well, how does one follow Lauryn's rant? Gee, I feel so inadequate for not noticing all that. A Tony Bennett sound alike? I assumed they just used TB's lesser known songs or had him subsitute something else. I guess I don't know much about his music except for I left my heart in San-Fran-cis-co.........As for 42nd Street, it sounded like it to me. I even sang along, although I hope I sounded lots better than those gals. Thanks for all the repsonses about Breath of Steele. I guess I should have edited my message better when I found the answer by watching the episode. Now I'll have to hunt for my very poor tape to see the difference in the music. Altered 42nd StreetI did like Breath. The girls were annoying but RS and SZ and John Larroquette were at their comedic best. It had lots of good parts.
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Post by Lauryn on May 17, 2006 0:32:07 GMT -5
Sorry for going off on such a tear. I'll give them some leeway for the sake of their pocketbooks (esp for Mick Jagger in "Hearts") But it's just that most cuts or mock-ups seem so indifferent (whatever the RS season) and the fakery so incurably lazy, not to mention, in the Bennett case, (where it's still meant to set a mood / comment on the action) a travesty of a mockery of a sham.
Well, it just doesn't sound like Tony to me. The other vocal is blander, so is the phrasing, and the voice lacks that still vibrant but slightly hoarse quality that Bennett had, esp. as he got older. I wouldn't call my opinion courtroom proof -- it's just what my ears are hearing.
I haven't watched "Breath of Steele" yet. It's at a pretty subterranean level in my episode rankings. I don't know what they may have done to "42nd St." I thought someone on this board said that a bad substitution or cut was used but I can't find mention of it now. I thought it was one of Debra's posts. Maybe she or someone else posted about it at yahoogroups.
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Post by steeleinc on May 17, 2006 9:23:19 GMT -5
>As for 42nd Street, it sounded like it to me. I even sang along, although I hope I sounded lots better than those gals. It wasn't "42nd Street" that was cut/changed on "Breath of Steele" - it was at the beginning when the girls were doing their 'dinner and a show' bit for Remington and Laura. First TPTB cut the whole Happy Birthday exchange and then they cut the majority of the singing telegram girls bit. As a result, the whole subplot about Remington's tickets for "42nd Street" made no sense. As far as Tony Bennett in "St. Trying", it sounded like him to me - but I have no idea if it was really him or not. If it isn't him, he should sue Fox for putting his name on the credits. The songs don't even qualify as songs; they're just tuneless drivel. Debra
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Post by Lauryn on May 17, 2006 13:30:48 GMT -5
>As for 42nd Street, it sounded like it to me. I even sang along, although I hope I sounded lots better than those gals. It wasn't "42nd Street" that was cut/changed on "Breath of Steele" - it was at the beginning when the girls were doing their 'dinner and a show' bit for Remington and Laura. First TPTB cut the whole Happy Birthday exchange and then they cut the majority of the singing telegram girls bit. As a result, the whole subplot about Remington's tickets for "42nd Street" made no sense. Just to clarify, youre saying they cut most of the singing telegram "jingle" but left in them singing the bit from "42nd St"? Which is another reason why I don't think it's Tony B. singing them. Sure you'd save money on the song rights but they're cheap knockoffs of his signature tunes, not anything from his actual back catalogue. (Or any singers' for that matter.) With hackery like "floating high on a cloud" substituting for "little cable cars climb halfway to the stars"? Would he do that kind of a stunt even if you paid him? Not that FOX would even go to the trouble or expense. I think for all the DVDs music was matter of indifference except to cover their butt by using cuts or substitutions. Thinking back on it in an 80's time frame, I suppose if there might be a money or rights issue with using the original songs when broadcast in syndication Bennett might have done an alternate track for them at the time, but it still doesn't sound like him to me.
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Post by steeleinc on May 17, 2006 15:13:33 GMT -5
>Just to clarify, youre saying they cut most of the singing telegram "jingle" but left in them singing the bit from "42nd St"?
Yes, the girls' birthday jingle at the beginning of the episode was cut, but the "42nd St." bit from the tag is intact.
Debra
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Post by Myrtle Groggins on May 19, 2006 2:25:38 GMT -5
Thanks, I wondered about that in Breath, I mean, there DID seem to be something missing. I really do need to search for my old tape -- fuzzy though it may be. edited to correct a letter
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Post by Myrtle Groggins on May 20, 2006 21:07:37 GMT -5
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Post by Myrtle Groggins on May 20, 2006 23:27:43 GMT -5
Which is another reason why I don't think it's Tony B. singing them. Sure you'd save money on the song rights but they're cheap knockoffs of his signature tunes, not anything from his actual back catalogue. (Or any singers' for that matter.) With hackery like "floating high on a cloud" substituting for "little cable cars climb halfway to the stars"? Would he do that kind of a stunt even if you paid him? Not that FOX would even go to the trouble or expense. I think for all the DVDs music was matter of indifference except to cover their butt by using cuts or substitutions. Thinking back on it in an 80's time frame, I suppose if there might be a money or rights issue with using the original songs when broadcast in syndication Bennett might have done an alternate track for them at the time, but it still doesn't sound like him to me. When I first watched it on PAX, I wondered if it was Tony Bennett, but when I rewound my tape and saw his name at the beginning, I believed them. Why would they cut him from the episode, substitute someone else, and then leave his name in the credits? This is quite baffling to me. Either use him or don't, but if you don't use him, take his name off the credits, for crying out loud. Stop the false advertising. That's why I thought it was him. Not having a complete dosier of his life, I just assumed they were telling the truth. Silly me.
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Post by IcyCalm on Jun 28, 2006 6:22:35 GMT -5
Ever since Pierce appeared on Letterman in April of this year (06) I'd been wondering where he picked up that cheezy expression, "Deep Bandini." He said they'd be in that, deep Bandini, if a photograph ever came out of President Clinton holding his hips attempting to correct PB's golf swing.
Now I know where it came from! (Probably.) In watching "Lofty Steele" last night I triumphantly witnessed Mildred threaten to put the on-duty nurse at the drunk tank into "Deep Bandini." A Mildred Krebbs expression if ever there was one.
I had always been prejudiced against "Lofty Steele" unjustly. It really is an interesting episode. Laura has her best solo segment ever, escaping from said drunk tank. Pierce throws in some slapstick, allowing thugs who buglarized the loft to step on his rib cage as they beat a hasty retreat. There's the irony of the save the whales campaign, an animal for which Remington knows nothing about, and Doris Robert's reprise of her Emmy award winning role as a bag lady. And that crack about the French Riviera is as good as it gets.
Another thing: I was watching "Double Indemnity" last week (my TV is constantly on) with Fred MacMurry and Barbara Stanwyck, circa 1956. At one point in the film I realized how much MacMurry resembled Steele in "Lofty Steele" - when Steele was dressed as a bum and wore that ghastly porkpie hat. In fact, there's a scene in the movie, in Stanwyck's car after they deposit the body on the railroad track, where they need to make their getaway but the bloody car won't start. The incredulous, "we're sunk now" expression Fred MacMurry gives is one that I've seen Steele use many times when he just can't believe things are happening.
Oh yes, the reason I was prejudiced against "Lofty Steele" to begin with, was that I had been infuriated with Pierce's haircut. All those glorious locks on the side and back of his head shorn to bits. (But thankfully not gone forever.)
IcyCalm
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Post by Ace on Jun 28, 2006 12:18:33 GMT -5
I like his hair cut in Lofty. It might be little short compared to his previous season hair (which was too much especially at the start of season one) but it's a great cut. I really like ths episode. It has a lot of humor and pace. Not just physical humor but so many great asides. My favorite line in the show is from the villain at his daughter's classroom. He looks at her drawing and dryly remarks that at least she's pretty and maybe she'll marry well. Bwahahahahaha!! The recapping of Steele's Save the Whale speech -- discussing film versions Moby Dick and how well they harpoon Moby --- is so funny considering real life non parallels. I love the juxtaposition of Steele huffing and puffing and making a great spectacle out of a few flights of stairs when minutes later he's running down an alley full speed and pulling himself up that fire escape and suspending hs legs horizintal to the ground with the greatest of ease and panache. Showing that he is indeed in grest shape but only when he wants to expend the effort and energy. But speaking of hair -- best look and hair of the series just may be in Family of Steele -- he looks spectacular. No wonder Laura agreed to go to Catalina and he can't keep the love brokers away.
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Post by IcyCalm on Jun 29, 2006 0:54:40 GMT -5
Tonight's episode for my viewing pleasure was "First Base Steele." I never noticed this before, and had to rerun to verify in slow motion: during the big game at the end of the show, Steele is up at bat. The first thing he does, with explosives loaded into the tip of the bat, is to give home plate a whack with the bat. Its something a lot of ballplayers do for some reason, like spitting and scratching. It made a distinctive sound, as anybody who ever played baseball or softball would recognize. I almost missed it were not for that sound. Shouldn't the bat have exploded right then and there?
Oh good lord, I'm starting to knit-pic, somebody stop me. Insomnia starting to take hold, all right. I'd watch "A Good Nights Steele" but I'm afraid of the repercussions - the "Ground Hogs Day" effect and all that.
Just a kidnap, catnap, ..... hmmmm......
IcyCalm
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Post by Ace on Jul 2, 2006 0:25:15 GMT -5
I finally got up the nerve to watch the official DVD version and sorry but, drug me or jail me, stamp me and mail me, I still can't think of what they did to "Steele Trying" as anything less than a lamp-post hanging offense. Gawd, not only is Tony B. missing, but they've replaced him with a sound-alike that doesn't really sound alike and plugged in tacky little mock-ups -- songs that aren't even real songs. Awful! I'm guessing these might be lifted from the PAX broadcast version because even A&E when they ran it on cable ponied up for the real thing. From what I'm hearing recently about other substitutions they've done something similar for the bits of "42nd St" in "Breath of Steele." Figures. But, honestly, if they couldn't even be bothered to find out that Steele's pocket watch tune "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling" is in the public domain, something you can find out from a quick google search, or for that matter, by shopping at any sheet music company, I don't think they lifted a finger, just did plug-n-play from bad cable broadcast versions. I just don't see any effort anywhere across the board, which makes me feel less forgiving. Oh god... Yes, I have avoided watching the entire episode until tonight. If I had a box full of wishes... the person who chose these song snippets would be hung from the lamposts like dogs except it's too good for them! Nauseating! Why did they even do song substitutes? Why just skip it if they were going to insert these pieces of musical pablum that elevator music would be insulted to call it's own. Better a musical void. If I had a box full of wishes -- what the hell? It changes the entire tone of the scene -- a scene about challenging missed opportunities, time passing, delayed desire and a touch of sadness as Bennett's gravelly tones caress the words and makes it into stuff more suitable for My Little Freakin Pony! I tried googling the phrases "my head's high in the clouds" and "If I had a box full of wishes" and no lyrics showed up anywhere for those two things. Does that mean someone actually created that shlock especially for RS? Blech. Ace
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Post by lotsofluck on Jan 16, 2007 13:19:38 GMT -5
Has anyone else noticed this? In Steele Your Heart Away when Steele and Laura are running from the "cops" handcuffed together, right after he says something about this is like being married, they duck behind a grassy mound. They both raise up to peek at the "cop" and I swear Laura has a cigar in her mouth. Steele immediately pushes her head down so you only see it for a second.The next time she raises up she has nothing in her mouth.
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